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axn
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Only 1 plugin |
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The ASS looks great (so far).
I have a question:
It saying not to use this prog with other plugin. Is that corect?
I also use:
Bayes Filter plug
BayesIt
AGAVA
Should I leave them or should I delete them?
TIA |
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vetaltm
Author
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Only 1 plugin |
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| axn wrote: | The ASS looks great (so far).
I have a question:
It saying not to use this prog with other plugin. Is that corect?
I also use:
Bayes Filter plug
BayesIt
AGAVA
Should I leave them or should I delete them?
TIA |
You should leave only one plug-in working in email client. The problem is that the filtering quality will be worse when several plug-ins are working simultaneously, no matter what method is used for calculating the summary spam ratio.
I'll explain it with some examples. Let we have two plug-ins working simultaneously. E.g. one plug-in gives the message a ratio 90, the other gives 20. If the method of calculating the summary ratio is Average, then the result will be 55. It means that the message will not be filtered as spam with the default spam ratio limit. It doesn't matter that, for example, the first plug-in was trained better, because the second plug-in will change the results according to its settings. It is obvious that the classification quality will be worse in that case. The other methods of calculating the summary ratio are not better and the problem exists with "Maximal" and "Minimal" methods too.
The white and black rules in plug-in give the messages the ratio 0 or 100. The other plug-ins know nothing about the rules and continue classifying such messages with a ratio between 0 and 100. E.g. if you have a white rule (or an address in friendly list) for some message, then if you have several plug-ins, it can be filtered as spam anyway. It means that the rules stop working in general case if you have several plug-ins installed simultaneously.
The main point: using several plug-ins simultaneously doesn't improve the filtering quality! In worst case the quality will be equal to the results of least of all trained plug-in. |
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axn
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Ok, all of them gone.
I just like to tell everybody that thanks to your software i went from 5-10,000 spam per day to 10. Now it just a matter training the ASS.
Q:
Once I delete the spam that gets to my junkmail folder - will ASS learn to delete the spam on the server next time?
When I open the connection center in TB 3.85.02 it looks real slow at point of hanging up (it does close eventually).
It happen after I installed the ASS.
(I just wonder)
The prog is really fantastic. I tried everything on this planet, but nothing help like your prog did.
Hope my spam nightmare is over.
You did excellent work!
Cheers, |
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vetaltm
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Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| axn wrote: |
Q:
Once I delete the spam that gets to my junkmail folder - will ASS learn to delete the spam on the server next time?
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No, you must explicitly mark the messages as spam before the deletion. If you have a "black words" method turned on, then the plug-in will update the list of spammy words from the subjects of marked messages and use that list for blocking spam by headers on the server.
| axn wrote: | When I open the connection center in TB 3.85.02 it looks real slow at point of hanging up (it does close eventually).
It happen after I installed the ASS.
(I just wonder)
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I guess you mean here that the procedure of checking headers on the server is working slowly. The slowest method is checking the source IPs over DNSBL services. If you have a lot of messages in your mailbox and a fast internet connection, then you can turn off checking DNSBLs for making the filtering to work faster. Most messages will be filtered on the client in that case. You can also import some black rules for blocking spam on the server by the evident signs: http://antispamsniper.com/misc/black_rules.xml
But please be careful and check how they work on your existing non-spam messages first (in testing mode)!
| axn wrote: | The prog is really fantastic. I tried everything on this planet, but nothing help like your prog did.
Hope my spam nightmare is over.
You did excellent work!
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Thank you! |
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axn
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| vetaltm wrote: |
No, you must explicitly mark the messages as spam before the deletion. |
How do I do that? The ASS took over and putts the crap in the Junk folder automaticaly. I just check them and delete them.
| vetaltm wrote: |
I guess you mean here that the procedure of checking headers on the server is working slowly. The slowest method is checking the source IPs over DNSBL services. If you have a lot of messages in your mailbox and a fast internet connection, then you can turn off checking DNSBLs for making the filtering to work faster. Most messages will be filtered on the client in that case. |
Now that you explained how it works and I understand - I will leave it as is.
Another well kept secret? Is their more? 
Q: I could see 1 good email trough the log that was deleted from the server: Ip blacklisted. How can I deactivate that particular email in the future, so it will go trough.
SO FAR SO GOOD! (I am still nervous)
TIA |
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paolo73an
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Q: I could see 1 good email trough the log that was deleted from the server: Ip blacklisted. How can I deactivate that particular email in the future, so it will go trough. |
I've seen there's a new feature from version 1.6.7 on, that from the log windows lets you set sender's email of filtered messages in the friend list. Maybe this can help.
About the "only 1 plugin" question: I use ASS 1.6.7.2 (first in list) and Agava Antispamservant 2.1.6 (second in list), both licensed versions.
With black rules set in ASS after a short period of training the plugins now I've achieved incredible results, almost 100% of spam correctly filtered!!
In thebat! options I've set messages to be put in junk folder when the MAXIMUM score set by both plugin is more than 98%.
With "minimum" or "average" score the results were not so good, but with maximum score option all goes as expected.
I hope this can help you
P.S: I like Antispamsniper very much. |
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axn
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: |
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I just bought mine. (and that is something-believe me) 
This guy is doing incredible work and want to support him.
He should go public and we should buy some shares:)
Everything is running fine (no other plugin), so I just leave it alone for a while.
It's still a very strange feeling - no spam at all. (I have to get use to it)
Thanks again for telling me about it.
What a dumb sh..s at TB, why don't tell anyone about this prog. Politics or?
It sucks! |
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vetaltm
Author
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| axn wrote: | | vetaltm wrote: |
No, you must explicitly mark the messages as spam before the deletion. |
How do I do that? The ASS took over and putts the crap in the Junk folder automaticaly. I just check them and delete them.
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The plug-in is trainable. For training it on the spam or non-spam messages use the following menu items - "Specials | Mark as Junk" and "Specials | Mark as NOT Junk". The plug-in will learn the selected messages and use that knowledge for improving the quality of classification. Also, the sender addresses are added to a list of friends automatically when you train the plug-in on non-spam messages. It is the most convenient way to fill up the whitelist with your friendly contacts.
| axn wrote: |
| vetaltm wrote: |
I guess you mean here that the procedure of checking headers on the server is working slowly. The slowest method is checking the source IPs over DNSBL services. If you have a lot of messages in your mailbox and a fast internet connection, then you can turn off checking DNSBLs for making the filtering to work faster. Most messages will be filtered on the client in that case. |
Now that you explained how it works and I understand - I will leave it as is.
Another well kept secret? Is their more?
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Open the plug-in's configuration window, go to Filtering tab, press "Black rules". In a new window press Import button and select the downloaded file with the rules (black_rules.xml).
To check the rules press "Enable testing mode" checkbox on the Filtering page. Then select one or more non-spam messages in TheBat and press "Specials | Mark as NOT Junk". The plug-in will classify the messages and write the results to the filtering log. If you'll see that some normal message was classified as spam by one of the rules, then you can deselect that rule from the list. Don't forget to turn off the testing mode when you'll finish with checking.
| axn wrote: |
Q: I could see 1 good email trough the log that was deleted from the server: Ip blacklisted. How can I deactivate that particular email in the future, so it will go trough.
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paolo73an is right - to avoid the deletion of messages you can add the emails of friendly senders to a whitelist. The plug-in never deletes the messages from friendly addresses. The easiest way to fill up the whitelist is marking all your good emails as non-spam. Also you can edit the list of friends manually (the button Edit list on Filtering page). And the third way is using a special button in Log details dialog near the From header value. You can see that dialog after double-clicking on some item in the filtering log.
Use the white rules if you want to prevent the deletion of messages by other criterions: signal substrings in subjects, other headers fields, message body etc.
And the last advise - please, read the manual |
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vetaltm
Author
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| paolo73an wrote: |
About the "only 1 plugin" question: I use ASS 1.6.7.2 (first in list) and Agava Antispamservant 2.1.6 (second in list), both licensed versions.
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I've explaned above some reasons to leave only one plug-in. Its up to you however and you can run both plug-ins if you want, but the classification quality will be a bit worse. |
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axn
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: |
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The double-clicking on some item in the filtering log is great, but it would be even better if - when you double click one can choose - friendly or spam.
Just a wish
BTW: I am lost in the rules  |
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vetaltm
Author
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| axn wrote: | The double-clicking on some item in the filtering log is great, but it would be even better if - when you double click one can choose - friendly or spam.
Just a wish
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Currently you can mark the messages as junk or good in TheBat folders. Maybe it is less convenient, but it lowers the probability of mistakes during the training. In TheBat you can see the message body, source and full headers, so it is harder to get mix up with the class of particular message. The classifier is rather sensitive to the training mistakes, thus poisoning the plug-in database with several incorrectly marked messages may lead to noticeable degradation of the classification quality.
| axn wrote: |
BTW: I am lost in the rules |
Actually the rules are optional, advanced method of filtering. If you don't want to learn the regular expressions, message structure etc. - then you can forget these words and use the default set of filtering methods. The rules are useful mostly for filtering the messages on the server by headers. And the well-trained algorithm can classify the messages correctly on the client by their content with high probability, even if you'll turn off all other methods. |
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axn
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Currently you can mark the messages as junk or good in TheBat folders. |
I know about that one (simple enough:) )
I was referring to ASS log. So far I got about 15000 spam and only 5 positive (that alone is incredible).
Your plugin is GREAT and I am getting greedy now. I hate to loose the five positive and looking for perfection. I check the log every day at least five times just to make sure I am not loosing ANY good emails. Like I said so far only 5 I saw in the log (usually "bad formed header or something) and I can see, it got deleted from the server.
I am not sure what's the best way to solve this.
I do click on the message classify as a good one, the I copy the email address, send the client email with apologies and ask them to resend the email again. (primitive, but works)
Am I missing something? I don't know how to tune the ASS and left everything at default.
Would it be practical to have a small delay before the emails get deleted on the server (1,2 days) ? Then when I see positive I just click on it and will not get deleted or ?
Sorry to be PITA
Thanks for all your help. |
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JimKyle
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Go to the Options item on TB's main menu, select Preferences, then go down to the Anti-Spam checkbox, highlight the Sniper, and click on the Configure button. You'll get a dialog with four tabs. Select the Servers tab, and clear the two checkboxes at the bottom of the dialog. This will disable deletion at the server, getting you the messages downloaded to your system where you can examine them and tune the rules appropriately via the Junk and Not Junk menu items in TB itself.
This is how I've configured my setup, and I find no need to delete messages at the server even though I get approximately 200 spams every day. With just a bit of training, the Sniper correctly classifies almost all of them, and I then delete them from my junk folder... |
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axn
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Got it.
I will try that and see what happens.
Thank you very much. |
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vetaltm
Author
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| axn wrote: | | Quote: | | Currently you can mark the messages as junk or good in TheBat folders. |
I know about that one (simple enough:) )
I was referring to ASS log. So far I got about 15000 spam and only 5 positive (that alone is incredible).
Your plugin is GREAT and I am getting greedy now. I hate to loose the five positive and looking for perfection. I check the log every day at least five times just to make sure I am not loosing ANY good emails. Like I said so far only 5 I saw in the log (usually "bad formed header or something) and I can see, it got deleted from the server.
I am not sure what's the best way to solve this.
I do click on the message classify as a good one, the I copy the email address, send the client email with apologies and ask them to resend the email again. (primitive, but works)
Am I missing something? I don't know how to tune the ASS and left everything at default.
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There was a bug in black rule "Malformed address (To)" and I think that this rule was the reason of false positives you mentioned. The rule can be deleted from a list of black rules manually (configuration window -> Filtering -> Black rules). Or you can simply install the latest build (1.6.7.3) and the rule will be deleted automatically. The other rules work fine, but you can disable them too to avoid the mistakes. The plug-in will use the remaining methods for filtering messages on the server in this case.
The filter deletes only 100% spam messages from the server when the filtering by headers is on. The plug-in doesn't use the trainable classifier in this case, because it requires the full message content for reaching an acceptable classification quality. The headers are analysed using a whitelist of email addresses, black and white rules, DNSBLs, black words in subjects. All these methods are aimed to recognize spam with the highest accuracy, skipping the good and "unsure" messages. However the rare false positives are possible as you've noticed already.
Jim advised you to turn off filtering spam by headers and I agree with him. You turn can off this option for some period of time and look at the overal statistics (and filtering log). If the number of false positives will be low enough, then you can turn off deleting messages from server again.
The most effective way to avoid false positives is training the plug-in on all your stored good messages. A list of friendly addresses will be filled up with your contact list and the messages from known addresses will never be filtered.
The future versions will have additional features for avoiding false positives. The bounce messages will be generated automatically for the messages, filtered as spam. Each bounce message will contain a password sequence for bypassing the filter. The sender will be able to insert this password somewhere in his message and send it again. This method cannot help to avoid blocking the messages from email lists, but it is not so important if the whitelist of senders contains all their addresses.
| axn wrote: | Would it be practical to have a small delay before the emails get deleted on the server (1,2 days) ? Then when I see positive I just click on it and will not get deleted or ?
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The Smart Dispatcher is aimed to replace the internal message dispatcher in TheBat. It will be possible to check the full list of message headers manually before allowing the plug-in to delete some of them from the server. But unfortunatelly the deferred deletion you mentioned above is not yet possible. Obviously, it is more convenient to use a dispatcher once a week, than checking the headers every time. But the problem is that TheBat works with the messages leaved on server ("ignored") a bit strange and downloads their headers every time.. It is not so important if there are 10-100 messages on the server, but downloading 1000-10000 headers every time is too much. Maybe some day the Ritlabs developers will change this strange behavior. I hope |
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